The rough and the smooth

As a fellow storyteller and admirer of the craft, I find myself utterly captivated by Kosminsky’s journey with Mantel. His narrative is reminiscent of my own experiences working with artists who have left an indelible mark on our cultural landscape. The closeness, the respect, the shared passion for bringing stories to life – it’s a dance as old as time itself.


Add Wolf Hall: The Mirror and the Light to your watchlist

So this is a first. My interviewee has walked out. Not in a flounce or in uncontrolled anger but dead casually, as though it’s no real biggy.

However, our scheduled one-hour interview, confirmed in writing, was intended to take place remotely, a common practice since the onset of Covid. We understood that clips from the discussion would be utilized by RT for promotional purposes regarding the return of BBC’s historical drama “Wolf Hall” after nearly a decade.

Despite arriving ten minutes late without an apology and with his camera switched off, he refused to make up for the lost time at the end. In addition, he informed us that not only would he be leaving 15 minutes earlier than planned, but this would reduce our agreed time by half.

It’s shrewd to handle it immediately since there’s not much room for maneuvering. Unpredictable, as that’s the impression his actions give. Dominant, in most cases.

It’s intriguing that Damian Lewis, who portrays Henry VIII in BBC1’s six-part series of Hilary Mantel’s last book in her Thomas Cromwell trilogy, “Wolf Hall: The Mirror and the Light,” seems to embody some of the same characteristics as the real king. This might suggest that Lewis is using a form of reverse method acting. If that’s the case, then it’s amusing to consider Peter Kosminsky, who is as calm and rational in his demeanor as Lewis is abrupt, as Lewis’ Cromwell, not just mirroring his star’s actions but also left to clean up after the departed monarch.

Initially, it seems that Lewis isn’t satisfied with the placement of your camera. He suggests, “Could you tweak the composition a little?” It appears you’re not pleased with the current setup of the camera? “Correct.” You then make some adjustments. “This looks improved.

Although it’s widely accepted that exceptional writing can make characters timeless and applicable across different eras, I’d like to pose a question that should be simple and unambiguous: In your opinion, how does the figure of Henry VIII resonate in our contemporary society?

Speaker: “Well, I believe that someone as historically impactful as Henry VIII will continue to be relevant. However, if your question implies that such a figure from the past, viewed through modern lenses, should no longer appear on television, I must say I strongly disagree with that notion.

As a devoted cinephile, let me clarify that my intention was never to challenge the character or series’ significance. Instead, I sought to understand their impact and role within the storyline. Thankfully, Kosminsky – or rather, Cromwell – graciously intervened, offering an articulate and extensive response.

He briefly pauses before jumping into the topic. “You know what, Ginny,” he remarks, “I believe this couldn’t be more timely.” Glancing around at global events, he points out Vladimir Putin as an example. “Despots are popping up everywhere,” he continues, “and if we’re not careful, we might see another one in the White House within the next two to three months. This potential new leader seems determined to act as a dictator from day one.

Are you suggesting such an un-woke character as Henry VIII should no longer be seen on TV?

In Europe and our nation, a similar pattern emerges as the Conservatives select their extreme right-wing leader. Now seems particularly apt for examining a past era in England when a dominant ruler held sway, and one who was known for unpredictable behavior.

1) Let me add that Damian delivers a remarkable performance, both brilliant and chilling in the series. This portrayal of Cromwell’s downfall is particularly interesting because Henry takes unpredictability to an extreme. He can be all-powerful one moment and impossible to foresee the next. You never know which version of Henry you’ll encounter when you arrive in the morning or after lunch, creating a state of constant instability and fear. Managing and dealing with such an individual is challenging for Cromwell, as he never knows what lies ahead. Given these circumstances, I believe it’s an excellent opportunity to explore the political dynamics of despotism.

Damian, is there anything freeing or exhilarating about playing such a badly-behaved character? “Well, acting is therapeutic, for sure, but I don’t think you’d want to be playing these kinds of people too often because they do wear you down over time. So, yes, there is a freedom, there is something therapeutic to be able to behave in whatever way you want, because any good drama most of the time explores us in extremis – our excesses, our greatest conflicts and our greatest triumphs – and life isn’t always like that. Life can be a bit more grey and a bit more dithering.

It’s enjoyable and healing for me to take part in plays where I portray characters who outshine or go beyond the ordinary, who reach their peak or even surpass it. It can be quite thrilling.

Instead of choosing to be downright awful, could we consider exploring the more unrefined aspects of ourselves, much like Gary Oldman’s character in “Slow Horses”? This character is oozing with grime, from his disheveled hair to his greasy food and even his smelly farts. This base nature within us could be an intriguing aspect to delve into and portray in a more exaggerated manner?

“No,” Lewis says. “I think that’s a generalisation. It might be upsetting to some people.”

Is it troubling for you that Henry has been this way? “Not at all, because Henry is a character to be enjoyed fully, given his true nature. He lived his life with zest, so it’s necessary to connect with him on the same level.

Henry VIII seems like an intriguing figure to delve into. Given that you mention your expertise in the Tudor era, I’m curious if your interest in history has been long-standing; was being a history enthusiast part of your past?

Absolutely, I took a liking to history, particularly so. I also have a fondness for dramatic arts education. With careful and strategic decision-making when selecting roles, you can further your education. If luck favors you with role choices, it opens up possibilities. Indeed, portraying a character like Henry VIII allows me to delve deeply into Tudor history, which is part of what intrigues me about the roles I choose.

As a dedicated cinephile, I’d like to delve into the creative side of Lewis Capaldi, who, much like Henry, has a strong passion for sports and music. At 53, after departing from Eton, Lewis performed in London Underground stations and France with his street music, busking. During the lockdown periods, he rekindled his relationship with the guitar.

Lewis finds delight in exploring and socializing with musicians, and provided there’s enthusiasm from the audience – “it should be able to support itself,” he notes – he intends to continue doing so.

As someone who shares your passion for music, I’m captivated by his street performance history and curious to know which tune earned him the highest income. “I performed a variety of my best songs from the past. The medley of Elvis classics received a lot of positive response.

“Were you on the subway at any point? It’s possible we crossed paths. However, if so, that would have been around thirty years back.

Despite the discomfort of the interview, Lewis graciously consents to listen to the newly-released album of a former prisoner I’m acquainted with via my charity, Liberty Choir. This album shares similarities with Lewis’ “roots” music genre.

Returning to the topic of “Wolf Hall”, it seems likely that they would each hold views on the monarchy – past and present – given their extensive research into one of England’s most prominent royal figures.

I enjoyed history very much. I enjoy the university of acting

In a friendly manner, Ginny, it’s not necessary for me to share my personal political beliefs. Let’s focus our conversation on the show instead. I apologize, but I prefer not to discuss my political views at this time.

“I believe we’re on the same page with this one, Damian. It seems like sticking with ‘Wolf Hall’ might just be our best bet.

Reflecting upon this endeavor, has it altered, broadened, or in some way impacted my perspective towards the monarchy?

Kosminsky expresses, “For me, it’s absolutely not the case.” He then delves into a captivating discussion about brutal acts perpetrated under religious pretenses. The director conducted extensive investigations on the Islamist militant group ISIS for his 2017 series, The State, which depicted the journeys of four young British Muslims who joined the extremists in Syria. “It’s important that we condemn such actions, yet it’s intriguing to note that when Christianity was at a comparable stage of evolution, around 500 years ago, similar acts were carried out in this country under the banner of religion.

Kosminsky carries on, after a moment of silence, discussing the modernization of the Church of England and the concept of democratizing religion. He explains that it was a groundbreaking shift when common English folk could attend church and comprehend the sermons delivered in their native tongue by a priest standing before them instead of the altar. Furthermore, he highlights Anne Boleyn as a significant figure in religious reform.

Damian, do you identify as more religiously affiliated or spiritually inclined? To be honest, it’s a matter of personal belief that I prefer not to discuss.

Kosminsky: “Both of us are rather private individuals. While we’re happy to discuss the show, neither of us anticipated that this conversation would delve into our personal beliefs and viewpoints.

Indeed, we typically avoid interviews that solely focus on the show. It’s essential to remember that journalism differs significantly from public relations. The essence of interviewing, whether it’s in-person or remotely, lies in discovering fresh insights about the interviewee. Readers are interested in delving deeper into the individuals behind the art and understanding their motivations and inspirations.

Kosminsky: You pop off, Damian.

Kosminsky: “OK, mate, good talking to you.”

I’m very pleased to speak to you, Peter, but this is not how I do interviews.

Kosminsky: “I’m not trying to be difficult, Ginny. I love your journalism.”

But then you know my approach?

As a humble movie connoisseur, I must admit that the queries you present have caught me off guard, much like an unexpected twist in a film noir. Being inherently private individuals, my colleague Damian and I are not accustomed to dishing out personal details. However, I’m more than happy to address these questions should they warrant responses. Let’s dive deeper into the cinematic world together.

It’s Cromwell (Kosminsky) again doing damage control for Henry (Lewis).

It’s quite intriguing actually, as in the books and series, Henry VIII seems somewhat secondary. Instead, we find ourselves captivated by the sharp-witted character of Cromwell, brilliantly portrayed by Mark Rylance.

Henry isn’t just a minor historical figure; he’s significantly important to anyone educated in England. While Cromwell may be the main character in your perspective, Henry’s entire life is shaped by how one handles this unpredictable, difficult individual. In fact, Henry was known for eliminating those who served him.

Hilary told me it needed to feel of the moment and real

During that era, it wasn’t just Cromwell who played a role; rather, he dedicated a decade of his life to endure and instigate alterations he deemed necessary within English society during that period. Thus, while Cromwell serves as the central figure, understanding Cromwell’s life is essential to grasping Henry’s influence.

The Mirror and the Light” spans the final four years of Thomas Cromwell’s life, specifically from 1536 to 1540. It’s worth noting that this novel almost covers a decade since the last television series, with both series collectively portraying a ten-year segment in Thomas Cromwell’s life, starting from when he first gained Henry VIII’s notice to the moment Henry VIII orders his execution.

Hilary Mantel’s genius lay in reimagining a character who was typically depicted as a villain or an antagonist from Elizabethan times, and after five years of meticulous research before she started writing, she proposed, ‘Let’s pause for a moment, this person had their own narrative; they considered themselves the hero of their own life.’

“The one thing she taught me was that these people don’t know they are figures in history. Anne Boleyn doesn’t know she is going to be one of six [the new series begins with scenes of her on the way to her execution and Henry marrying Jane Seymour]. She does not know that she is going to be beheaded by a swordsman from Calais. And obviously for us, the story ends the moment Cromwell is extinguished.”

It’s evident that the loss of a friend and collaborator who held great significance for Kosminsky is still deeply affecting him.

In September 2022, at the age of 70, author Hilary Mantel passed away following complications from a stroke that occurred three days prior. Her final work in the Cromwell trilogy was published two and a half years earlier in March 2020. Mantel often spoke about how the original television series, based on the first two novels in the series, ‘Wolf Hall’ and ‘Bring up the Bodies,’ had impacted her writing of the last book. In fact, she shared parts of it with the show’s creator, Peter Kosminsky, as she finished them to receive his feedback.

Initially, when Kosminsky was offered the chance to direct the BBC adaptation, he believed it was a prank. “Indeed, it was surprising that I would be given such a task.” At that time, Kosminsky was known for creating dramas based on significant real-life issues. However, when presented with the opportunity to collaborate closely with a literary legend, a double Booker Prize winner and former documentary-maker like myself, I had to remind myself it was real.

I can’t help but admire her openness regarding her highly acclaimed work. She seemed to view herself as a valuable resource for anyone seeking information, always ready to answer questions promptly and thoroughly as we prepared the production. Her emails would arrive within mere hours, filled with intricate details and insights that significantly contributed to our understanding and execution of the show.

The script penned by Peter Straughan was already finalized when Mantel passed away. It came as an unexpected and heart-wrenching shock to everyone involved, given her close friendship with us all and the deep sorrow we felt. This was her last completed novel, arguably the pinnacle of her career, and so there’s a heavy sense of responsibility to adapt this last work for the screen in a manner that would have pleased her – a task I’ve been immersed in for the past ten years.

It’s apparent that you’re feeling emotional about her. During our shoot days, we really felt her absence, as we couldn’t discuss things with her or get updates from her. It’s been challenging for us, though I imagine it’s been even harder on her family.

In much the same way that a strong bond exists between a writer and themselves, an actor might describe their connection as being akin to a passionate romance, using the phrase “It’s nearly like a love affair, Ginny.

Once the actors have been chosen, it’s not simply a matter of asking them to deliver their lines more swiftly. Instead, it’s about delving into their emotions, uncovering the underlying layers, and inquiring, “What is the source of this line? What emotional force propels that line?

Mark Rylance was awarded a Bafta for his portrayal of Cromwell in the initial season of “Wolf Hall,” but Kosminsky believes that this second part could be the actor’s most memorable role yet. The original series, where he earned numerous accolades, tells the story of a man climbing the social ladder with nothing to lose; a man who is teetering on the brink of homelessness, spots an opportunity and seizes it aggressively. It truly showcases his audacity.

However, “The Mirror and the Light” presents a different perspective. In the original narrative, Cromwell was the underdog, a rebel battling against the establishment, ruthlessly ascending while pushing others aside. In this series, Cromwell represents the establishment itself, and his fate can only lead one way – downwards. And he plummets dramatically.

Actors may have a different take on it, given my extensive research on them, but I believe that portraying growing darkness and despair, hanging on for dear life, is a more complex task compared to playing boisterous exuberance. In my opinion, this is the most outstanding performance to date by the esteemed Sir Mark Rylance, as he masterfully takes up this challenge.

As you build strong bonds with these individuals, they entrust you with their emotional journey. This means your feelings are deeply involved, especially during tough times. For instance, when Mark’s character, Cromwell, descends into a dark passage in the series, I was there to accompany him. Needless to say, this experience leaves an indelible mark, one that doesn’t simply wash off like a coat and allow you to go out for a drink afterward. Instead, it leaves lingering effects.

A palpable sense of admiration and gentle affection seems to pervade the relationship between the director and his performers as they collaborate to produce something meaningful. Ultimately, this is what we all strive for – casting a meaningful light onto our own reflections.

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2024-11-07 21:07